Q & A: The Nature Of The Protests In Brazil
Comments (6)
The protests in Brazil have been going on for over a month now. (Tânia Rêgo/ABr, Creative Commons)
Originally, we saw a minor protest in Natal last August in which citizens marched on city hall to demand a reduction in bus fare. Did you think this would be something to come back around or did you think that would be the end of the issue?
I don't think anybody had any idea how things were going to turn out at all, and much less that the people could actually win that battle and have the increase in fares cancelled...the movement and the consequences caught the country by surprise. It was a unique opportunity: everybody agreed on the same thing.
What is the general attitude in Brazil to the protests? Do people agree with them, or are they reminiscent of Occupy Wall Street, where a large number of people think protesters are out of line?
Brazilians are not very political people. The last demonstration on the streets dates to 20 years ago (author’s note: this would be considered the millennials in America); your generation had never heard of anything like that happening.
We don't have religious conflicts or many of the issues that motivate protests in other countries...these protests got 100 percent approval and that is why they were so effective. Everybody agreed that with the eyes of the world on Brazil because of soccer and Olympics it was now or never...if we had to complain, this was the time.
Brazil has seen its economy grow exponentially in recent years, rising all the way to the sixth largest in the world; has all the economic gain gone to the upper classes, much like in the U.S.?
In the last few years there has been a better distribution of wealth and therefore we have a huge middle class coming to the scene. However, they were given crumbs, with some government programs...like an extra wage for families with too many kids, or "poverty help" as the other one is called...kind of the same food stamps we have here and similar...so their lives got a little better but even more dependant of the government.
The demonstrations in Sao Paulo are a result of increased bus and metro rates. You spoke about an increased dependence on government, but with Brazil having one of the strongest economies in the world, why is what seems to be a small increase such an issue?
The nominal reason was the 0.10 cent increase in bus fares, but it was more a matter of principle; that is the reason it was so powerful.
So there is a widespread feeling that this is about more than money?
Yes; it affected everybody, rich and poor. If our country was growing so much, so much money was being made, a fortune spent preparing for the soccer world cup, fortunes in investment in stadiums, airport etc...in the sixth biggest economy...why is our transportation so pitiful? Where was all this money going? Clearly it was not going back to the population. At the same time, we have a corruption crisis. Some of the corrupt politicians who were tried and condemned because of holes in our laws, many of them were back to the senate and other political areas...they stole millions, we proved they did, and now they were free and the people had to pay more for a horrible transportation system...? There was something really wrong and everybody had to agree with that. No matter what age, political affiliation or economic status.
Besides increased metro rates, what are the other things that people see as outrageously overpriced and why do they see those as the government's fault?
Everything is overpriced in Brazil right now, and that is why Brazilians go to Miami and buy half of town. Jeans in the U.S. cost four or five times less, same for electronics. I can take my old iPhone 4S to Brazil, sell it and have more money than I need to buy a new 5 here. Our taxes are too high. Forty-three percent of all the money I make selling toys, for example, goes straight to government pockets, but the money disappears in corruption schemes immediately and nothing goes back to society.
This idea of corruption keeps coming up; what exactly are we referring to?
An example: the last government before PT (Note: PT is the abbreviation for the Workers Party, which currently controls the government) had 12 ministries. This is a normal number...now we have 39. Why? Because they had to bring more people to public places to repay favors to stay in power.
There is a joke that says when John Paul went to Brazil years ago he asked Fernando Henrique, the president, why 12 ministries? And he said: because Jesus had 12 apostles.
The joke is that next month when Francis gets there he will ask Dilma why 39 ministries, and she will answer because Ali Baba had 40 thieves.
The president responded to protesters by offering to bring in more doctors to help the medical system, channel oil royalties to public education and hold a nationwide vote on the political system, and was quickly shut down. Why do you think people weren't receptive to those ideas?
The problem is not the lack of doctors but the lack of investment in public health. All the money the states get is stolen by corruption; nothing is invested in paying doctors or in hospitals. All the doctors go to private practice; otherwise they would starve to death.
So it seems she hasn’t quite realized the problem?
She made promises, didn't take measures. We don't know if she will take her promises to term; they are too vague. She wants to call a plebiscite, but that seems to be unrealistic and mostly it wouldn't help because most of the population wouldn't understand enough to make a good decision and many votes could be bought.
The president has also had historic approval rates throughout her term. Even though they've fallen lately, if this gets resolved, will things go back to normal?
She is trying hard. She immediately agreed with the people that the protests were good and legitimate and people had to complain...as if for the last three years she has been president she had no idea what was going on.
The upper class won’t buy her cheap excuses, but she is trying some popular measures that might have some effect with the lower class who are not so political...also, they depend om too much of government with all the programs they launched to remain critical.
Police have been using rubber bullets and tear gas to disperse crowds…within Brazil is there a feeling that the protesters deserve this, or are the police crossing the line?
The protests were very peaceful, most of them. It was proven that all the confusion was provoked by people paid by the government, people who belong to the governing party, just to make it seem like there was confusion and to justify repression. Everybody went to the streets. The same day CNN was broadcasting the protests as being violent, my brother sent me a video of my nieces dancing in the middle of the protests right in front of the maternity where his wife was giving birth. So I know for sure it was not as bad as they showed.
There has been talk that if the protests don't die down, FIFA will move the 2014 World Cup to the United States. How real of a concern is this?
I think that is not true. They can’t get another country to prepare in such a short time, they have commitments and multi-million dollar deals sealed...almost all the stadiums are ready...there's been too much committed already between FIFA and investors inside and outside Brazil. I think it is an empty threat.
Protests started on June 6, nearly a month ago. How much progress has there actually been since they began?
I think a lot was achieved, in the sense that the people in power understood they have to do something or they will lose their seats. The bus fares went back to old prices, and a law that would protect corrupt politicians, known as PEC 37, was vetoed. I think all this was extremely important to show PT, which has been in power for three terms, that it could lose its turn if it doesn’t change some things fast. The question is how much they are willing to change. How much of their power and privileges are they willing to give away? Or, even better, how much can they really change, considering their own interests. Remember, there had been no opposition in Brazil for over 10 years. PT won election after election; I think they got the feeling of being invincible.
Does it look like there is any end in sight to the protests?
Now the protests have completely lost track. People are protesting for so many different reasons. When you have a goal, you can achieve it; when there are too many causes, I think it will lose steam. The only national cause right now is to battle corruption. so the politicians might have to be a little bit more careful.
What reasonable measures would satisfy the protesters?
That is the problem. In the beginning, they had a demand; now they have many. The best thing would probably be some real investments made in transportation and health. But the corruption, one of the main issues, is even more complicated to deal with because the changes would have to be approved by the same people who benefit from corruption. In Brazil, corruption is an accepted problem, above the law, always has been. We have to wait and see if the new generations can change that.
As a business owner in one of the cities with the most uprise, have you felt impacted?
Very little. It is almost imperceptible. Four or five people missing work in a group of 150....during the whole period...
Where do you get most of your information on the protests? Is it coming from Brazilian news sources or do you get more reliable information from American sources?
Both. I read Brazilian news and I read American news. Most of the time they are so different it is a joke.
